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SpotifyWe’re mixing faith and friskiness and spilling divine secrets on tasteful toys. Get ready to bless your bedside drawer with a touch of sex-educator-approved delights. Dr. Celeste Holbrook is back with the the quality sex education we need after purity culture life.
Partner with us to hear our thoughts on the Barbie movie, plus you’ll get a ticket to The Big Debrief at the end of the month and more!
Show Notes:
53: What Makes Sex Good with Dr. Celeste Hobrook
114: Let’s Talk About Sex (Education! And Masturbation! And Toys! with Erica Smith
20 Years Later, How The ‘Sex And The City’ Vibrator Episode Created A Lasting Buzz (Forbes)
The Velvet Box
20 Best Bullet Vibrators (WomensHealth)
We-Vibe
Sex Ed Classes with Dr. Celeste Holbrook
Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sexologist and speaker who helps her clients evolve into the people they were created to be, in and outside of the bedroom. She speaks on a variety of topics from sex drive and sexual shame to painful intercourse, purity culture and more. Her mission is to provide safe spaces for people to talk about sex Dr. Celeste has been featured in Women’s Health Magazine, Mothers of Preschoolers, Reader’s Digest and more. Connect with Celeste on Instagram and take her classes online.
The transcript of our interview with Dr. Celeste Holbrook
Devi (she/her):
Okay, welcome Celeste. We’re so excited to have you back, one of our all-time favorite guests.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Oh wow,
Jessica:
Yes,
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
I like that.
Jessica:
you are very, you are very popular Celeste.
Devi (she/her):
Very.
Jessica:
I mean, most episodes we put with the word sexes in the title tend to get most of our listeners deciding to download that particular episode. But
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Thank you.
Jessica:
especially when we have someone like yourself with your expertise as a sex therapist, it is just so informative for us and for our listeners. So we so appreciate you coming on with us.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Well, thank you so much for having me. It’s, I love seeing you guys. It’s just so fun. And I feel, Devi and I were talking about how it just feels like we’re just friends and we just get together and we’re gonna chat about sex.
Jessica:
Well, today we’re here to chat about something that I don’t know. I don’t really chat about this with my friends, but I don’t know. Maybe, um, maybe you guys do. This is, um, something that, uh, can make some people blush. We’re here to talk about sex toys and, um, we’re, I don’t really know where this conversation is going to go, but we are going to hopefully, um, tackle without blushing too much about something that, um, can often be taboo, but something that we should be informed about and understand how if and how we might want to integrate it into our sex lives. So
Devi (she/her):
It’s going to go toward battery life. That’s, that’s what I think.
Jessica:
Okay,
Devi (she/her):
I’m sorry.
Jessica:
that’s the big questions about battery life. Okay, great.
Devi (she/her):
I’m sorry.
Jessica:
So, Celeste, I’m curious, obviously as a sex therapist, and if people haven’t heard you on our show before, unfamiliar with you and your work, you would describe yourself as a Christian as well, right?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Um, probably not anymore. No, actually. I,
Jessica:
Oh, okay!
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
um, I do feel I’m, uh, Christian informed, uh, faith informed for sure. Um, but I, I think I’ve probably fully deconstructed out of the label of Christian at this point. So, um, yeah, no, but I love Christians and I work with a lot of Christians and I still very much identify spiritually with a lot of things offered in Christianity.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
But no, I would say faith-informed, probably not Christian.
Jessica:
Yeah, no worries at all. I’m glad I asked that question because I think it’s important to just to understand though that that’s like the I guess the background that you’ve you come to these conversations within growing up in that context. And as you just said, working with a lot of people who identify as Christians or also come from that background and recovering from purity culture as so many of us are. Yeah. So. What have you has the topic of sex toys is that always part of a sex therapist toolkit how did that come about in your work.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, so I am originally a health educator. So I’m a health educator by trade, I’m a sex educator by trade. And so my very, very first job was with a sex toy company as a health educator, as a sex educator. And so that is really truly my roots. That’s where I came into the work of sex education. And that was back in 2010. when I first started working for a sex toy company as their lead sex educator. So my job was to make sure that the toys that Bree brought in the line were safe and were good quality. My job was to make sure that people knew how to use the toys and they were using them appropriately.
Devi (she/her):
Hehehehehe
Jessica:
Right.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
I had some fun jobs like we would do lubricant. tastings. So we got to taste all different lubricants and try and name them certain names. So, you know, it was a really fun job. But that is really my roots are in sex education are actually in toy manufacturing and sales. So it’s really the start of what began my career.
Jessica:
Mmm.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah. So, okay, when you think about the people you’ve seen, you see a mix of Christians and non-Christians, right,
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes.
Devi (she/her):
Celeste? And you’re, yeah. What tend to be the issues that Christians bring, if you suggest a sex toy to them? Well, first of all, why would you bring up a sex toy with a client? Like, why would you suggest a client use sex?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes. So let’s talk about the idea of sex toys in general. This is kind of going to answer your question and maybe a few more questions. So let’s talk about the idea that the only thing that sex toys do. And when I say sex toys, I mean a very big umbrella of things from blindfolds to fuzzy handcuffs to vibrators to dildos to lubricants. All of these things. have the intention of helping us feel novel sensations that we might not be able to feel on our own, right? So if that’s a flavored lubricant, that’s a novel sensation of taste. If it’s a vibration, that’s novel movement, a sensation on our skin that we can’t create with our own fingers. If it’s a blindfold or a handcuff, it’s a restraint that we might not be able to do. Now that’s… maybe we could do that on our own. But the idea is that you are inviting a sensation into your sex life that maybe you haven’t had or haven’t had in a long time. So the whole idea is just novel sensations. And if we can kind of let that sink in instead of feeling so intimidated by them, it’s just like… you know, sex toys are there to help you have a more pleasurable experience or an easier experience, right? If we think about people with limited mobility, maybe a sex toy can help them reach in places that they couldn’t before, right? So it’s kind of the same. I like to make this analogy. It’s kind of the same as your favorite gadgets in the kitchen. My very, very favorite kitchen gadget is actually a cherry depitter.
Devi (she/her):
No way, it’s your favorite?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
It’s my favorite. I love it. I love it. I put the you put the cherry in and you like clamp it down and the pit just flies out the other side. I think it’s so fun. I think it’s so fun. And it makes my life easier because I don’t have to take the cherries out, you know, take the pit out with my mouth. So it’s just it’s just helping my life get more pleasurable or easier in the kitchen. Same for sex toys. Sex toys help you find more pleasure or some ease in sex. That’s all they are there to do. They’re not a replacement for anything.
Devi (she/her):
it seems like that is something you’ve talked about a lot. Why is novelty sort of a big deal when it comes to sex?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So novelty is one of the things that increases arousal, along with other things. But novelty is one of the things that help us feel more into sex, more aroused for sex, help our body and our brain feel interested and want to explore. And so novelty, that’s why, it’s in part why when we’re first together with somebody, there’s a lot of novelty. And so we are really into them. And sex, feels easier because it’s just new. Do they like me? Do they not like me? Oh, I’m going to get naked. Is this okay? You know, so it’s novelty is a huge aphrodisiac. So when you are in a long term relationship, I’ve been with my partner for 16 years, when you’re in a long term relationship, novelty becomes a little harder to access. And again, it’s not the only route to arousal, but it is a route to arousal. And so sex novel feeling, oh, this is new, we haven’t felt the sensation before together or by ourselves or whatever. So that’s why novelty is helpful is because it increases arousal.
Devi (she/her):
And sex toys can be useful in creating novelty.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s exactly right.
Jessica:
You said, so 2010 was when you started work as a sex educator for a sex toy company. What have you found the changes in terms of public perception for sex toys from 2010 to now? Cause I know like on my Instagram feed and for Devi and I obviously, in our discovery page for our, for the podcast, we get a lot of stuff, like all of this, um, fun stuff about sex education and toys and everything else. It seems my vibe is, it seems to be a lot more readily accepted. How have you seen that?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, I definitely have seen it become much more mainstream. You know, what really happened in 19, I want to say 98, was an episode of Sex and the City, where Sarah Jessica Parker buys a rabbit toy, and it is like something she talks about and something that she openly likes. Is it Sarah Jessica Parker? Is one of the characters. I wasn’t a Sex and the City fan. So it’s one of the characters, maybe it’s Charlotte, buys a sex toy. And after that, it kind of turned, it really opened up the door for women to say, oh, this is an okay thing for me to talk about, for me to talk with my girlfriends about. And so after that, sex toy sales started to become more mainstream. So by the time I entered the industry in 2010, we were starting to see shops open up that weren’t so seedy.
Devi (she/her):
Hmm.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
And then we had online sales that were easier to access a toy without going into a shop. And the company that I worked for was an in-home party plan company, right? So I worked for their corporate office, but they had about 75, at the time, 75,000 consultants who would go into your home. And so you could kind of choose and select a sex toy without going to a store. And that became really popular.
Devi (she/her):
75,000 consultants?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah.
Devi (she/her):
Like an MLM or no?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
An MLM, yes.
Devi (she/her):
Like a pampered chef party?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
It’s Pampered Chef for Sex Toys, yes.
Devi (she/her):
Oh my gosh.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes. And it was really revolutionary, right? Because what you have now is all of these women going into other women’s homes, and there’s,
you know, 10 to 12 other women there, and being sex educators.
Beautiful, right? So my job was to make sure these 75,000 consultants… had the right information when they’re going into these other women’s home and somebody’s coming up and saying, oh, I really have some painful sex. Do you have anything to help with that? Or I really struggle with arousal or I’m in this relationship. I don’t want to be in anymore. Right. They were hearing all the things that a sex educator might hear. So it was a big responsibility and just a beautiful way to make sex more accessible to talk about and more open to talk about.
Jessica:
Do they, do those parties still exist, Celeste?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
They do, they do, I don’t work for that company anymore. But yes, they do, they do still exist for sure.
Jessica:
Devi, I was just thinking it would be super fun to do like, um, like a live zoom one for Patreon or something. Somebody showing us different things.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah,
Jessica:
I think that would be interesting.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes, that would be amazing. You probably have consultants in Australia who would love to do that for you.
Devi (she/her):
Okay, so Celeste, in your work with Christians, do you find that there are some things that Christians uniquely are like weird about when it comes to sex toys?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, masturbation mostly. And so people who are non Christians, most people have a hang up about if they if they have issues with sex toys, it is will this replace my, my me as a partner or will this replace my partner or can I get addicted to it or is it going to make it so I can’t come in other ways, right? So those are things that oh, like, everybody kind of worries about not everybody, but if you’re going to have a hang up, those are the hang ups that I hear. The ones specific to people in the Christian faith are typically about masturbation. Is masturbation okay? Can I masturbate? Is it a sin? Those types of things. Those are the things that I hear from more from Christians for sure.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah. So not specific to toys in general then. Not specific to like, do we want to like use a toy at all? Interesting.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Um, I mean, I do hear that like, is it okay, but it always references back to masturbation, like because that’s typically what you’re using, or a lot of the times what you’re using a toy for.
Jessica:
Hmm. That’s, um, what do you do with that question, Celeste? And this has been a sidestep from our topic, but I mean, that’s, that’s more like, I guess a theological question than a question that’s purely about sex. So, and I mean, I guess, and there’s no necessarily like for some people at mine, they might feel it is for some people, they might feel it’s not. How do you, so if someone. Like if we said to you today, is it a sin? We feel like it’s not. We feel like it is. What would you say?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So my job isn’t to convince anybody of anything. My job is to allow education to happen and you get to choose for yourself. So if I have a client who comes in, I’m always going to respectfully ask, like where, you know, do you have a masturbation practice? Do you feel comfortable touching your genitals? If not, let’s talk about it. Is that something you want to change? Is that something you want to learn more about? Sometimes I have clients who come in and say like, I don’t masturbate, I don’t want to masturbate, it’s outside of my ethical. value system, I say, great, let’s figure, let’s talk about something else, let’s figure out something else. That’s not in line with where they wanna go. And it would be unethical of me to try and change her mind, right? However, the vast majority of people are coming in with the question of, is this okay? Can you help me understand this better, right? And so that’s when I do say, okay, well, from a purely scientific, from a social cognitive view, Masturbation is something that we do to cope with hard feelings, we do to learn about our body and explore, we do to learn about how our body works so that we can give informed consent for somebody else to touch our body. It’s a very normal, very natural thing that most people would probably do if they weren’t ashamed for doing it growing up, right? It’s a normal thing to learn about your body in this way. That said, you may have other feelings about it, so let’s talk about it. I can go into, you know, I have all of the training theologically. I went to Christian school from kindergarten all the way through my undergrad. So we can talk theology if you want. We can talk about the verses about Onan and what that meant. You know, I can go down those roads if people want to go down those roads. But for the most part, people are just curious, like, and haven’t been given an alternative perspective. And that’s what’s really What I really want to emphasize is that you haven’t made a choice until you know all the options. You’re not choosing not to masturbate if you don’t know all of the options, right? You’re just being manipulated not to masturbate, right? It’s not a choice if you
don’t know all the options. So here’s all the options. Now you get to decide what feels right for you and your body.
Devi (she/her):
Mmm.
Jessica:
Hmm. Yeah, that’s that’s, I really love that Celeste. And I know for myself, like, in my purity culture, kind of upbringing, I felt like it was sinful to like do anything like touching anything around even to the point of I didn’t feel like it was I was comfortable using tampons, like, because I didn’t want to like touch down there. I’m not meant to know anything about that, you know, or explore or understand anything. Um, that was where I came from. Um, all the way through to now I’m comfortable knowing about sex toys. I’ve been into a sex shop or sex shops here in Melbourne, um, and asking questions if, if you’ve never gone into a sex shop before. The people who work there are super helpful and they just wanna help you understand things, right? And so I guess I’m gonna put two totally different hats on Celeste and kind of ask you questions that might be coming up for some of our listeners. So let’s say someone’s single, they’ve decided they are comfortable masturbating and they would like to incorporate a toy for the first time. into their, you know, self self-partnered sex or however we want to describe it, that they’re engaging in. What, where’s a good place for someone to start?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So if this, as a person with a vulva, I’m just making assumptions, but as a vulva owner, what I usually suggest as a place to start is a bullet vibrator. They’re gonna be like literally bullet shaped like a bullet. This is kind of a larger one that I’m showing on the screen right now. So since your listeners can’t see it, it’s about maybe three inches, four inches long, and it has buttons on one side and it’s. a smooth silicone outer coating and it has an,
Jessica:
It’s a bit bigger than a tampon actually,
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
it is a bit bigger than a tampon
Jessica:
If you’re unfamiliar with bullets
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes, exactly. So it has an oscillating motor on the inside on the tip and a charging port on the outside on the end. So basically, what you’re gonna do with a bullet vibrator is just explore your body with the vibrations. And I don’t necessarily mean go straight to your clitoris. Maybe start on your shoulders or start with your leggings. Excuse me, you start with your leggings on. Like get used to the feeling or the sensation of vibrations in your hand or in places that aren’t as sensitive. And then you can kind of work your way down to maybe your belly, maybe. the inside of your thigh with your leggings on, or then maybe your vulva, your labia, with your underwear on, and then slowly work your way to the clitoris, or maybe your nipples or something like that, so that you aren’t just turning it on and putting it directly on a super sensitive part of your like your clitoris, right? So bullet vibrators are intended to be used only externally typically. So you’re not usually internally putting them into your vagina. We know that most vulva owners have their first and most of their orgasms through clitoral stimulation And so you want to start out with something that’s intended for external clitoral vibration, not necessarily internal. So that’s where I usually suggest people to start. Definitely have a lubricant along with your vibrator because the vibrations feel better when you have that lubricant kind of in between. the skin tissue and the toy. So, bullet vibrator’s a great place to start. You can also go into your toy store and ask for a Clitoral Vibrator.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah. Okay. So I have a practical follow-up question. And
Devi (she/her):
Jess, I love that you’ve gone into a sex shop and can share that. So I’ve never been in one and I’ve never used a sex toy in my life. So like my pragmatic practical brain immediately goes to like, okay, so where is this happening, Celeste? And it has a charger. Like where do you keep that? What do you do after? Like, do you need to clean it? Do you need to? Like, yeah. Yeah. And then do you store
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So great.
Devi (she/her):
it somewhere like so that it doesn’t get dirty? I don’t know. Yeah.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, those are such great questions. I’m so glad you asked that. So let’s start with cleaning first. Yes, you need to clean your vibrators, all of your sex toys, and you preferably need to get a sex toy cleaner, just like you wouldn’t put laundry detergent on your hair, even though they’re both soaps. You would use shampoo on your hair because it’s made for that type of material.
You have to buy a toy cleaner, or it’s really recommended you buy a toy cleaner for your toys. because it is made for the type of silicone external coating that you have. So a toy cleaner, you just spray it on and rinse it off in your sink, in your bathroom, and then dry it off. And then you can, this particular one that I held up actually has a storage case that comes with it. But you can slip it into a little silk bag and put it in your nightstand, and you’re good to go for the next time. You don’t really want it touching other toys.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Sometimes they can stick together if you have a lower grade silicone, but really just in a little silk bag in your bedside table is perfectly fine. And then yes, it has a charger so you do have to plug it in. Sex toys used to all be battery operated, but now they’re pretty much all rechargeable. And so yes, you want to make sure you charge it before you use it or else you’ll be really disappointed when it goes out halfway. between your session.
Devi (she/her):
I mean, this really seems a little…
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, it’s important.
Devi (she/her):
And then I will just I’ll just follow up with one other question
that maybe other mothers are thinking about what happens when your kid finds your charging sex toy or takes it and thinks it’s something else or I don’t know what. Yeah.
Jessica:
I’ve seen some funny photos on the Facebook Mums of Multiples page where, you know, she’s like, um, the photo of the twins. Oh, look what the twins found.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yep. And that’s a tougher question because I would want to know how much your kid already knows and what you say to one kid is not going to be the same as what you say to another kid who is older or younger or whatever. But just be honest. I am a big fan of kind honesty when it comes to our kids because it establishes trust. And you’re not… taking anything from them, you’re only giving them education when you’re telling them things about sex, right? We often hear the narrative as, I don’t wanna take their innocence or I don’t want them to lose their nativity or whatever, naivety. But really, you know, if you think about it in that way, and this is a little so boxy of me, but if you think about when we tell our kids information about sex as them, losing their innocence, you are essentially saying that telling them about sex makes them guilty of something. And that’s so far from the truth, right? It makes them actually informed and available to make healthy decisions on their own. They are not guilty of anything when they are informed about sex. So just a little paradigm shift to think about when we think about how to handle these situations of, you know, a kiddo finds your sex toys, what you would say to them. you would say, no, that’s a toy I use on my own in private. And hopefully they already know about masturbation. You know, when you go in your bedroom and you like to touch your clitoris or you like to touch your penis in the shower, this is something I use for that, that maybe I can get you on when you’re a little bit old.
Jessica:
Um, I loved all of that Celeste. That’s really informative.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Hahaha
Jessica:
That’s fantastic. Um, so, uh, so just for additional information, so good practices, cleaning, um, cleaning is a good practice. Um, some need batteries, some, uh, recharge with like basically like a USB cable kind of thing, recharge rechargeable. Um, and okay. Perfect. Um, and bullet vibrators, if, if you’re starting out, um, and you’re thinking about, um, solo play, uh,
(Patreon break)
Jess: For a couple who has, um, uh, let’s say a heteronormative couple, um, and they haven’t used toys before any kind of toys, um, together. Uh, what would you suggest? And I mean, it might be the same toy, but what would you suggest be a place to start?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Okay. So yes, for a vulva owner and a penis owner who are having sex together, I lots of times will suggest a bullet vibrator for the clitoris owner for the vulva owner first because she can use it during partnered sex, you know, if you can touch your clitoris in any way you can touch it with a vibrator of bullet vibrator. And because penetrative sex isn’t always the best route to pleasure for vulva owners, being able to touch their clitoris or have some sort of simulation on the clitoris during penetrative play can be really helpful. Like with doggy style or rear entry, where you might be able to lay on a vibrator or touch a vibrator. to your clitoris or your partner can touch your clitoris with a vibrator, all of those things can make sex so much more enjoyable simply because you are having the stimulation that you don’t normally get in those positions. And so that’s one thing that I suggest. Another thing that can be helpful are things like the WeVibe for example is a, I have one here, I know it doesn’t make any sense to show this because your listeners can’t hear. hear me or see it. But the wee vibe is like a little toy that actually is inserted into the vaginal canal. So let’s pretend like that’s the inside of the vaginal canal. It’s like a let’s describe this.
Devi (she/her):
It looks like a claw, like a crab claw. Sorry. Did that just turn everybody off? Sorry guys.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
But think way softer and not pinchier. Maybe um, maybe it’s like a U shape.
Jessica:
Maybe Google it guys
Devi (she/her):
I’m sorry
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes.
Jessica:
Devi’s just trying to be helpful, but I don’t know.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
You know, I mean, you’re not wrong. You’re not wrong.
Devi (she/her):
Thank you
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
It does kind of look like that. Yeah.
Devi (she/her):
A very soft, feminine crab claw.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
There we go. A very soft, feminine crab claw. And so it basically inserts, part of it inserts inside the vaginal canal and the other part is on top of your clitoris on the outside. So there’s a rotator in here and there’s a rotator in here. And so both of these places are vibrating. So when you are in penetrative sex, the penis actually can slide, it’s kind of flat here, so it slides up and down, the flat part that’s inside the vaginal canal. And so the penis owner actually gets some vibration there too, plus the vulva owner gets vibration and nobody’s using their hands for anything, it’s just like, you know, kind of wedged up into the vaginal canal. So the wee vibe is a great, couples toy. They have all kinds of wee vibes. This particular one is called the wee vibe chorus and you can actually sync it up to your iPhone and play your favorite songs and it’ll like vibrate along with like your Taylor Swift songs or whatever.
Devi (she/her):
Oh my gosh
Jessica:
Wow. There you go, Devi.
Jessica:
Taylor Swift
Devi (she/her):
Taylor Swift. Well, I’m in guys, done.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes.
Devi (she/her):
That’s done now.
Devi (she/her):
Jess, you need to take me to the sex shop because I didn’t even know. Yeah, I’m so intrigued. I was telling Celeste before we started recording. The sex shops that I’ve seen here looks very seedy, with the blacked out windows and they look kind of, I don’t know, like they don’t look like the velvet box, which I’ve seen what your shop looks like in Texas,
Jessica:
So last let’s get to the second question about when someone in a partnership is wanting to explore this and the other person is not quite there yet or not sure or maybe just totally against it.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, so it’s helpful and possibly validating to remember that there’s no, really no two people on earth who want sex in the same way at the same timeframe with the same accoutrements and the same amount of arousal, right? So sex is almost always, or at least should be, a negotiation between each individual’s desires. So… It’s very common really for one person to be like, yeah, I want to try this thing, whether it’s a sex toy or a position or sex outside or sex with the lights on, right? Somebody wants to try a thing and the other person’s like, I don’t know about that thing, right? Very common, very, very common, right? So one of the things that we do hear a lot in the business as they say, and this is for somebody who owns a penis, right? And they’re in partnership with really, it could be a gay couple, it could be heteronormative couple, really anybody, somebody who owns a penis might feel like if their partner wants a penis looking toy, or any kind of toy that it might replace them. So this is called the replacement theory. But this isn’t true. This doesn’t happen, right? We cannot, at least in this moment, we cannot have full relationships with toys that require vulnerability and intimacy, right? When we masturbate, there’s no required vulnerability. I don’t have to check in when I masturbate, except for with myself. I don’t have to make sure somebody else is okay. I don’t have to negotiate anything. I just do everything for my own purposes and goals. But when I’m in partnered sex, I have to check in, I have to be vulnerable, I have to make sure they’re okay, they have to make sure I’m okay. We negotiate things we do and don’t want to do. So there is vulnerability and that leads to intimacy. So we really can’t experience intimacy except for with our own bodies, but that’s kind of on a different plane. We can’t, we don’t experience intimacy or vulnerability really in a masturbation practice where we do experience intimacy and vulnerability in a sex, a partner sex practice. And so sex toys really are unable to give us that intimacy and feedback that our partners are. So there’s no way that a sex toy could replace our partners in that way. What we wanna think about is how sex toys enhance the intimacy and connection. So even the negotiation of a sex toy can enhance intimacy. Like, oh, I like the way it feels here. Oh, that’s interesting. I didn’t know you would like that. Tell me more. Why do you like it? So you can use sex toys as a platform for increased communication. excuse me, and as a platform for increased pleasure shared by the two human individuals, not shared between a human individual and a toy, right? That’s not where the pleasure is shared. The pleasure is shared between two individuals. So replacement theory is not real. You can’t replace your partner with a toy, even if you named it, like lots of people name their sex toys, people names.
Devi (she/her):
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Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So.
Jessica:
Ha ha
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
But it just can’t happen. We use sex toys to enhance the pleasure in masturbation practice or enhance the pleasure between two partners, which in turn enhances intimacy. So that’s one reason people might be a little bit hesitant to try a sex toy. Another reason is because they just don’t know. They don’t know what’s gonna happen. You know, if you grew up in purity culture, you… nobody’s ever talked to you about sex toys or like what they’re for or what to do with them and so they can feel kind of out of the norm or like you’re not good enough maybe if your partner wants to use a
Devi (she/her):
Absolutely.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
sex toy.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
And so those things can need to be talked about before you bring a sex toy into the bedroom. I always suggest talking about or purchasing a sex toy together before you’re like… hot and heavy in the bedroom and say, oh, by the way,
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
I’m gonna use this tonight. Do you know?
Jessica:
Hehehehe
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Definitely talk about it before you bring it into the bedroom.
Devi (she/her):
we’ll do the questions from listeners. So these are questions that people had who listened to the show. So here’s a good one to start off with. Okay, to be real, do suction toys feel anything like oral or is that a marketing tactic?
Devi (she/her):
maybe tell us first what the suction toys would be.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Well, they’re suction toys for clitoris owners and for penis owners. And I don’t own a penis, so I don’t know about that. But supposedly they do create suction. I have one here that you could kind of look at, but this is the one that I featured on Instagram not too long ago. What is my,
Devi (she/her):
Oh yes, I saw this one.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Its the Beer Can male masturbator
Devi (she/her):
yeah.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yeah, you live in the United States and you want to shop from velvetbox.com. You can use my code Celeste and get a discount. But, ooh, did you hear that? That’s fun.
Devi (she/her):
I, yes I did.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So this is a male masturbator. It has some nubs on the inside that you can kind of see there. And when you have the right outer casing, you can create a good amount of suction with these male masturbators. And I’m assuming that they do kind of feel like oral sex. But I don’t think it’s super helpful to compare. Think about them as just different types of stimulation. I don’t know that it needs to feel like oral to feel pleasurable or that oral sex needs to feel like a male masturbator to feel pleasurable. So then you have suction toys, I don’t have one with me, that go on the clitoris that do have a little bit of a suction action, but they’re not typically as strong as somebody could when they’re going down on you and giving you oral sex. So they’re going to be different. They’re not exactly the same as human lips.
Devi (she/her):
Yes, I think what I’m hearing from everything you’ve said so far is this idea that it’s an enhancement and it’s for that sort of excitement novelty factor, but it’s really not the replacement.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes.
Devi (she/her):
It’s not a replacement for what your partner can do.
Jessica:
So the second question we had from one of our listeners, and this one, I guess, it sounds to me like it would be a common one, and that’s do sex toys make you reliant on them for pleasure? So I guess then if you decide you’re not gonna use it, will you still be able to orgasm? I guess if I’m paraphrasing and elaborating on that question
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
If I teach myself how to come with vibration, will I be able to come other ways? And the answer is I don’t know. It’s your body. I have no idea. So some people so For most people, the way that they masturbate is very kind of one lane. Even for penis owners, if you watch a penis owner masturbate, they kind of do it the same way every single time, right? If you watch vulva owners masturbate, they’re gonna use the same strokes, the same techniques, broad strokes, direct strokes, left labia, right labia, whatever it is, they’re gonna use kind of that technique the entire time. So… So it’s not so much of could I do it some other way? It’s how do you want to be able to do it? And can you teach yourself other ways? Yes, you can. But your body is hardwired to figure out how to get you to where you want to go with the least amount of energy. And so it does this in running, it does this in getting you from A to B, that’s with orgasm too. So it’s going to want you to do what you already know. Can you teach yourself other ways to orgasm? Yes, I think that you can. Just like you can teach yourself other ways to eat your spaghetti. But it sometimes can take some work and that’s okay. That’s totally okay.
Devi (she/her):
So is it, are you saying then that they do sort of make you reliant on them for pleasure if you get very used to it?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Um, well define, like what do you mean reliant on it?
Devi (she/her):
Well, that was the question. I guess, like, does it… Could you get yourself to a point where you can only experience pleasure using that toy?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Pleasure? No, I think you can experience pleasure in a lot of different ways. Your body is going to use the most direct route possible to get to orgasm, which is different than pleasure. And so yes, it could be that if you use a vibrator in your body, that’s the way it likes to get there. That doesn’t mean you can’t orgasm in other ways. It might just be faster. That’s like using the Ferrari instead of the… you know, the Honda. So, but it doesn’t mean that you would only be able to orgasm that way. It just means it might be the fastest way. And sometimes you don’t want to go fast, right?
Devi (she/her):
Yeah.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
So
Devi (she/her):
Okay.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
hopefully that is a better answer to that question. Sorry.
Jessica:
question that we got from a listener, which is how does using a sex toy or sex toys in solo play or in masturbation impact? Will that impact my ability to experience pleasure with a future partner?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes, it should make your pleasure better with a future partner. Like the more that you can understand what you like and what you don’t like in your masturbation practice, the better sex will probably be in your partner practice because you know exactly how to get you to where you want to go. So yeah, using sex toys, not using sex toys. If you’re comfortable with your vibrator or whatever sex toy you’re using, then you’ll be even more comfortable asking a partner. to use that on you or use it while you’re having sex with him. So the more comfortable you are, the easier it’s going to be to bring that into a partner play if you want. So
Jessica:
Mmm.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
I think it makes sex better in the future for your future partner play.
Jessica:
I love that,
Devi (she/her):
what I, yeah, what I really hear there is again, the more education, the more information equals better sex. It’s just that simple. Yeah.
Jessica:
And the more you know yourself, because like, and I mean, it’s, it is about knowledge and education, but it’s also knowing your body and
Devi (she/her):
Yeah.
Jessica:
it’s, and it’s your body that God gave you to understand and know, and, um, obviously like the way I’m speaking, I, it was probably transparent that I’m, that I’m pro masturbation. But I love that answer because this question about being, is it going to impact your ability to experience pleasure? I think potentially this person asking the question was thinking it’s going to make it harder for me to experience
Devi (she/her):
Yeah.
Jessica:
pleasure with my partner, but it, yes, it is going to impact, but you’re saying it’s going to make it better because you understand yourself a little bit more. Whereas otherwise you’re not going to know it, know anything, you know, it’ll be like the blind leading the blind potentially.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Right. Because you masturbate different than all other people, right? Everybody’s masturbation practice is pretty different. And so even if you have some, uh, like a practice partner, somebody who’s had a few other, um, experiences with other people, that doesn’t mean that they know anything about what you like. So
Jessica:
Right.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
having that experience is really, really helpful. I think a lot of times, especially as vulva owners, I hear, and we think like, oh, they’re going to know what to do. And that’s false.
Devi (she/her):
Yep.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Even if they have a lot of experience, it doesn’t mean they’re gonna know what to do for you.
Devi (she/her):
you. Yeah.
Jessica:
Mmm.
Devi (she/her):
No, that’s good. I do think though, it does, there’s one bridge that has to be crossed there, which is the ability to communicate what you want with a future partner. And I think that is huge, because you might know everything and still kind of go, I don’t want to say it, or I struggle to say it, or I, you know, all the different reasons. And that feels like such a big part of it too, is just the communication piece.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
It is totally true. You can know, you can have all the knowledge and not be able to say it. So here’s a little tool that I love to tell people who are in this particular conundrum. Like I know what I like, but I don’t know how to say it.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Start with, I really love it when you. And your partner will do anything, right? I really love it when you.
Devi (she/her):
Yeah, it’s true.
Devi (she/her):
I love that, Celeste, that’s so helpful.
Jessica:
Mmm.
Devi (she/her):
OK, let’s end with brand recommendations. What brands do you trust for good quality toys?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Oof.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes, so well, I don’t know exactly what you have access to in Australia. But here in the United States, I work for and love. I would never work for a company I didn’t love. I work for and love the Velvet Box. They choose a wide variety of brands that are really great, but what’s most important is that you like the toy. And so really understanding what you’re after is probably more important than having the best, widest, most popular toy out there. If it’s not something that you like or doesn’t feel good to you, then it’s not gonna matter. So if you can go to a store and kind of touch and feel the products, that could be helpful. If you know what you like, you like clitoral stimulation, you like broad stimulation, you like internal stimulation, you like G-spot stimulation. If you know what you like, then it kinda narrows down how you’re gonna shop for that toy. So I don’t know if I have specific brand recommendations that would be helpful for your listeners, but if you know your body pretty well, you can kind of go to a store or shop online and find something that fits your body’s needs.
Devi (she/her):
Okay, perfect. And Celeste, before we end, you do courses through the Velvet Box as well. And are those courses available online for people, some of them?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
Yes, there are
Devi (she/her):
Yes?
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
most of them are available online. I only teach one in house course here
Devi (she/her):
Okay.
Celeste Holbrook (she/her):
in Texas. And so you can go to my Instagram and go to that’s the easiest way to go to the link in my bio and go to velvet box classes. There’s about 27 classes there right now that you can just purchase anytime. But for example, we’re speaking on a Tuesday and tonight I’m teaching a live class here in a few minutes about blowjob. I’m teaching a blowjob class. So you can also attend live classes. We’re going to be doing a series on health, sex and health this fall. So that will be a good series. But if you just want to know about oral sex for her, oral sex on a vulva, anal sex, purity culture, we have all kinds of classes that you can buy at the Velvet Box.